Elevator Talk Episode 133: Sleet Pops, Dime, Joy Supply, Sidepiece

Ray Latif [00:06] Hey folks, I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer of Bevnet's Taste Radio podcast. And you're tuning into the latest episode of Elevator Talk, the series that profiles early-stage and disruptive brands from across the food and beverage industry. Today's episode will focus on four food brands whose entrepreneurs will have an opportunity to hear feedback and advice from our co-host for this episode. That's the great Wade Yennie, who is the vice president of Brand Management and Business Development for V Driven. Wade, the champion of elevator talk, how the hell are you?

Speaker 2 [00:41] I'm good, Ray. It's always a pleasure to see you and, and grateful for the opportunity for the first time, I think, in 2026, uh, to do this. So excited to be here today.

Ray Latif [00:49] Yes, indeed, it is the first time in 2026, but certainly not the first time you've been on Elevator Talk. You have been a great partner to this show and offered so much great feedback, wisdom, and advice to entrepreneurs who are just getting started in this industry, and I can't thank you enough for doing so and once again joining us. You are truly the champion co-host of Elevator Talk, so I can't say enough about how happy we are to have you back on the show. But for folks who may not have seen your appearance in prior episodes, tell us a bit about yourself, your background, and your work with VD Driven.

Speaker 2 [01:26] Yeah, so, again, thanks for having me. I think a lot of people know me, but I have over 2025 years' experience in CPG in various capacities. First part of my career in CPG, I, I was a category manager side, category management, and then later an executive in both conventional retail and natural organic and specialty retail, holding roles across the country and back, back when the Coast. Now my last role before joining VD Driven was with the Fresh Market here on the East Coast where I served as their vice president of Center Store. With VD Driven, as you said, I lead brand management and business development, which quite simply is relationships, whether you're an existing client or a potential client. I own those relationships and you know we work with brands, primarily emerging brands and in a number of capacities in accounting, deduction management. Uh, consulting, go to market strategy, and sales and brokerage. So, that's what we do and we have a lot of fun.

Ray Latif [02:24] You do indeed, and it's a great team over there at V Driven. A lot of experience and a lot of folks who have seen brands come and go in this industry. And as everyone knows, CBG is really, really tough. Typically, the challenges are pretty similar for a lot of brands, especially starting out. In 2026, I feel like one of the hardest things for any founder is to let people know what you're doing, to create awareness for your brand and to highlight the differentiation that you're bringing to market. And I think on the industry side that's one part, and then on the consumer side that's another part. But Wade, in your experience, how does differentiation stick? How do you get people in our industry to see what you're doing, understand what you're doing in a really enticing way, and then how do you differentiate on shelf such that the consumer understands that this is something exciting and new?

Speaker 2 [03:27] Great questions. I think there's a number of, number of things to unpack there. I think first and foremost, you as a, a, a founder or a brand have to understand what your point of differentiation is. And lean into it. And really, that has to come through in your packaging. It has to come through in your messaging, your marketing, and all of, all of your go to market strategy. You really have to hit on those points of differentiation and whether that's attributes, whether that's ingredients, whether it's, you know, a call out of, you know, everybody talks about protein and fiber, it, it just has to be very clear messaging and it has to be consistent, and it has, when consistency from Everything that you do, uh, to the on shelf, uh, if you're, if you're having demos, everything around is just a 360 approach that you really have to be clear in your point of differentiation and your messaging.

Ray Latif [04:17] Yeah, and I think making it clear but easy is another part of this too. It can't be a complicated message. It has to be something that people get within a matter of seconds. If you have to pitch, and I know we're going to hear a bunch of pitches today, but if, if your true elevator pitch is more than 2030 seconds explaining what you do. You might have a hard time getting someone in the industry to want to extend that conversation. I think really wetting the pallet, making sure that you have a tight pitch is a huge part of getting the ball rolling. Um, what do you think needs to be in that pitch? What do you want to hear in, in say, a 15, 22nd pitch wait?

Speaker 2 [04:57] Concise, clear, and I, I think what, what I have on the front of the package, right? And, and, you know, if you have 10 certifications, what are the 2 or 3 that you're hanging your hat on? Get those on the front of the package, make it very, very easy to understand. You said it yourself, uh, you know, whether you have 1520 seconds at the shelf as the consumer scanning, whatever that message is, has to be identifiable on the front. Legible, clear, and, and just stand out. It has to stand out so that when I'm looking and scanning the shelf, uh, it's right there and I see it, and, and that's what's, that's what you want me to take home. That's what I'm taking home. And, you know, whether I pick up the package or whether, oh yeah, that's what that is, that's what needs to happen.

Ray Latif [05:40] And flavor. I mean, if you can communicate flavor on front of pack, at least get someone to want to try your product, I think that goes a long way. But in terms of macros and nutritional value, you mentioned protein and fiber, and we have folks on this episode who are going to talk about protein and fiber. But where do calories and sugar stand for you? Is it still something where most consumers are looking for Lower calorie, lower sugar, but no compromise on flavor. Are consumers willing to shift their palates or adjust their palates for, for lower calories and lower sugar, or does there have to be no compromise at this point?

Speaker 2 [06:19] My personal feeling is that there shouldn't be much of a compromise because I think at the end of the day, taste always wins. I mean, we're on taste radio, right? I mean, it's, it, it, it always wins and it's taste first because if it doesn't taste good, The odds of me coming back and picking up a second time are, are probably not very, very likely, and I think, uh, you can't compromise on that. And I think the other things can come and go, because depending on you and your lifestyle, you might be more, more focused on a high protein diet. So, you're going to give in some other aspects, you know, whether it's calories, carbs, all those. Different things. Everybody does their own thing. So I, I think if you're, if you're going on trends, you have to be prepared to iterate your package because trends don't last forever. You know, I think of things like keto, keto and paleo and things like that. You don't often see those things on front of the package, but when they were at their craze and, and at their height. You, you often saw that at the front of the package, but the, the, the brands and the, uh, the, the nutrition profile still exist, but you're not seeing necessarily those on the front of the package like they were at their height. And I think if you are trying to capitalize off a current trend or craze, you have to be prepared that that's likely not going to last forever, and you should be prepared to stick to whatever your core messaging is.

Ray Latif [07:32] Well, I am thrilled for you to meet our entrepreneurs for this episode of Elevator Talk, and we've got 5 fantastic folks. Are you ready to meet our first? Let's do it. All right, that person is Sarah Marie Cole. She's the co-founder and CEO of Sleet Pops. Sarah Marie, it's great to see you.

Speaker 3 [07:52] Hey Ray, thanks for having me, Wade. Great to meet you. What an incredible segue into talking about protein and fiber.

Ray Latif [08:00] You had a great conversation with my colleague Mike Schneider, who is known as Bevnet Mike, and he really loves what you're doing, and I think that there's some real traction for what Sleet Pops is doing. You talked about protein and fiber, but let's hear the whole story. What is Sleep Pops?

Speaker 3 [08:18] Awesome. Sleep Pops is the first ever protein and fiber freeze pop, so we're 10 g of protein, 10 g of fiber in a small 2 ounce, 2 fluid ounce serving. 90 calories, no sugar in flavors that are light, creamy, and craveable. So we have a variety pack that is lemon, orange, like creamsicle orange, nostalgic, so good, and berry. And we have been sampling at. We met Bevnet Mike at the startup CPG Alley rally. Uh, he recommended us connecting here. Um, we are weeks away from our launch, um, so we've just been sampling, getting feedback, and we're ready to rock. So I'm really excited to be here.

Ray Latif [09:05] I'm ready to taste. I can't wait to taste these because they, they look amazing, and I love that you have equal. Look at that. There it is right there. Yeah, it's, and you put that in the freezer, it freezes up and then you tear it open and you eat it like a popsicle,

Speaker 3 [09:18] correct? They are shelf stable, so we'll be able to turn on D2C. We can easily do sampling, demos. Our logistics become a lot easier that way. Um, freeze them at home, and then the texture of them. If anyone is watching, they have a slight give even when frozen. They have this creamy, melty, smooth texture that is not like a traditional like icy or rocky freeze pop. They're like creamy and cool and kind of soothing to eat and inspired. I have a huge weight loss journey. I've been on GLP-1 medications. I've lost over 110 pounds in the last 2.5 years, so I'm very grateful for this journey. But the medication's going to take your appetite away and it's still really important to get food, but it's also hard to eat when you don't crave things. And so part of the inspiration for these was to be light, cool, creamy, craveable, and refreshing when you need nutrition nutrition and You, it's really hard. It's just hard to explain. Like you want to feel, you want to feel the food and have it be cool versus forced something that may be harder to eat or consume when things don't sound good. So we were really formulating that texture around that feeling of refreshment, being light and creamy, so.

Ray Latif [10:37] Very interesting concept, Wade, uh, I, I, I'm a big fan of frozen pops and especially in the summertime, and I think of, you know, we've seen some functionality in that category. Uh, I don't think we've seen anything like sleep pops yet.

Speaker 2 [10:53] I can't think of anything myself, Ray, and you know, I, I believe it or not, did not segue in the beginning of the intro. We talked about some of the things that uh Sarah's touching on. We, we didn't, that was not queued up. I, I, I think, uh, you know, obviously, it's on trend when you're talking about fiber, you're talking about protein. Um, the one, the one thing that I'm, I'm wondering, uh, Sarah, is, uh, I've seen products, uh, I'm not gonna say like yours because as Ray said, we haven't seen necessarily innovation like this, but Where do you see it living on the shelf? Because I've seen, you know, obviously, you could in theory sell it frozen, um, which, you know, that, that customer that's looking for a cold treat or something like that is, is going to be in that area, but then you also, I've seen, you know, More conventional products obviously with the different attributes or no attributes in the ambient shelf. So where do you see your product living on the shelf?

Speaker 3 [11:43] Well, you know, that was going to be one of my questions for you while we were, we were, while you were talking about an intro. So I think, well, one of my launch strategies for testing is I want to go on to fair this summer and learn from smaller boutique retailers kind of where they Where we might fit in their stores and where are consumers finding us, I think in the freezer like section we would stand out because we're nothing like anything else in that category and a lot of it is geared towards kids, so we'll still see moms and parents in there like hopefully identifying with something that this is for them as well. Um, and then in the ambient, you know, better for you aisle, you know, we could get lost in there easily or not understood. So I think this is going to be one of my bigger challenges, uh, in, uh, in the retail world once we're at that point, so. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Speaker 2 [12:41] Personally, I think Frozen makes a lot of sense. I, I, I, I think you're likely to get lost in the ambient shelf. I think when I think about anyone that would be comparable in that space, it's probably going to be more towards geared towards kids, probably not as healthy, obviously. And so, you know, usually in the conventional world ends up somewhere in like the juice. or adjacent to like the Kool-Aid jammers and Capri Suns type that, and that's not where you want to be. The one thing that I would say, and I'm, you know, I'm looking at your package, but you probably want to keep in mind and maybe do some due diligence in advance is to look at the height of the product on the shelves in the freezer set. And if I, I, I, it looks like it's merchandised vertically. Um, so I would want to make sure it's, it, you, you, that's, so you're gonna take up less space that way. Um, yeah, and so it's actually a bag. I'm looking behind you and I see a box, so it like, it looks like a box. So, yeah, so it's merchandise like that. Uh, yeah, exactly, exactly. I was thinking if it was a box, you wouldn't be vertical and not horizontal because you're gonna take up more space, but I, I, I think it makes the most sense personally in the frozen section.

Speaker 3 [13:46] Yeah, I do too. I think maybe as we get brand recognition, you know, I can see us in GLP-1 end caps or summer, you know, summer healthy eating, you know, we'll be able to play in that space as, as we become more established, but I think you're right. I think we need to show up in it. We are a freeze pop. We should be in the freezer.

Ray Latif [14:04] Congratulations on your journey with GLP-1 drugs. I think it's interesting to hear about it and how many other stories are like it out there. And people looking for brands like yours. But what do you lead with? What's your, what's your communication strategy look like or sound

Speaker 3 [14:19] like? That's a great question. So originally I was leaning all in on the GLP1 story. I even had a different brand, a different name for the company. We were originally going to be called GLPop and just focus on that sector. And as we were making prototypes all, you know, the last 6 months, I have college age stepkids who They were trying them, their friends were trying them. My friends, you know, I've had everybody sampling these, and I'm like, you know, I'm not a on a GLP-1, but I need more protein. I need more fiber. I love this, you know, my, you know, I don't know the lingo or the exact words my stepson used, but something hip and cool and fresh about, you know, how we would, him and his friends would be all over it. I'm like, all right, it's right. Like you're right, we need to change this. We need to make it more neutral. Um, and it really, you know, for anyone prioritizing protein and fiber, which is so many people, I try to make the brand neutral. And so I think we lead in with, you know, it is protein, fiber, no sugar, 90 calories, and a light, light, healthy snack, refreshing snack, and the founder story and all of those other benefits are discoverable, um, based on the type of consumer who's leaning in and wants to learn more about why we've created these and formulated them the way that they are.

Ray Latif [15:39] Wade, what do you think about that strategy as, you know, in your former role as a retail buyer and then in your role, I guess if it's a role as a consumer.

Speaker 2 [15:49] I, I agree. It's, it's what I, we talked about in the intro and we talked about, you know, messaging like keto, like pale, some of these that aren't as common now. I think, uh, GLP ones can be somewhat polarizing. Not everyone understands them. And, and so as a consumer, um, you know, I, I may or may not be educated about it, but if I see that, I'm like, well, that's not for me, you know, and I might not, you know, and, and we're missing the product tastes good. It's got these other attributes that, you know, I do pertain to me, but if, if I Got captured immediately by the GLP-1, I think we, we'd probably lose someone in that regard. So I think what the, the pivot you made, made a lot of sense, and it's probably a good thing you made it before you got too far along the journey and now, you know, you can kind of go and, and going back to what we said previously, I think the nice thing about your product is it's, it's merchandiszable in both ambient and frozen. So in key seasons, you know, when the temperature and, you know, whether you're talking about, you know, I, I think about moms. And, and baseball games and activities in the heat and things like that, that, you know, these are things that, you know, conceivably could be taken to shared with a, a Little League game or something like that. And so, you're going to have opportunities potentially on NCAP displays and ambient or pallet drops or things of that nature that comparable, um, you know, adjacent novelties in the frozen section don't. And so that really, in my opinion, gives you a, a, a nice advantage in that regard.

Speaker 3 [17:11] That's great. One thing to add that's interesting that I was not expecting is we've heard from two different audiences outside of CPG, one being hospitals and leveraging, this type of nutrition for cancer patients and people who have recently had any kind of, kind of gastrointest gastrointestinal surgeries or having a hard time eating, um, and also the assisted living community. So those are two, I don't, you know, I don't know. Those are 22, channels I have no experience in, but I'm interested in that as we grow and the awareness and those additional kind of consumer segments and places where we can, can show up that something like this in a new format that is, you know, again, lighter and easier to consume with nutrition can help a lot of people. So, we're very excited.

Ray Latif [18:06] Yeah, I think those two channels are, are real potential paths for sleep pops, I think. You'll learn more about how people consume the product and who the customer is and what they're expecting as you get to market. I do, before we wrap up, I do, I do want to do a very quick exercise here. The variety pack has 12 pops. And it's a great looking package. And if I saw this on the shelf, I'd have a price in mind. Wade, what would your price, what, what is the price that you have in mind for a product like this?

Speaker 2 [18:42] And what's the size of the pop? I feel like I'm being quizzed here. What's the size of the pop again? They're 2 fluid ounces, 2 fluid ounces, OK.

Ray Latif [18:49] And there's 12 per pack,

Speaker 2 [18:50] 12 per pack.

Ray Latif [18:53] I guess what would you pay for it? What would you be willing to pay for it?

Speaker 2 [18:57] Well, I'm, I'm going to try and liken it to, you know, because you've got 10 g of protein, which is, you know, a little bit less than, you know, most of your protein bars and things like that, but it's in that neighborhood. I think of what's in that novelty space. And so, and, and you're going to be compared to some things that, you know, maybe visually are larger, and so they're not, you know, you're, you're, you're going to be up against maybe a 4 pack, a 6 pack, or something. There's usually not. That many in there. So I think in a perfect world, and I hope I don't burst a bubble here, I, I would love to selfishly as a retailer see a price point like less than 12.99. Um, but realistically, I saw the face. If I'm comparing it to, if I'm comparing it to, um, you know, like a nutrition bar or something like that, I'd say less than 1999. And I think the challenge, I would throw this back because I think this might be why Ray had some ulterior motives here. He might have brought this up, is you might need to look at that pack size because I think if there's a challenge there, if you go in that space that you're gonna live in, that you want to live in. You're likely not going to find something outside of a, a warehouse environment like a Costco or a Mass or something like that. You're likely not gonna find something that high up on the spectrum, um, you know, as far as price point. And, and it's not just about how many units. Yes, you're giving more units, but you're also want to live competitively. So maybe it becomes a six-pack or something like that to get it to where you need it to be, but time will tell, right?

Speaker 3 [20:27] Exactly, we are going to, well, Ray, I'll let you continue with your test before I,

Ray Latif [20:31] no, no, now, now is the time to ask Sarah, what, what is the price point? What, what will be the price point when you roll out?

Speaker 3 [20:38] So our direct to consumer, our direct to consumer price that we're going to launch and test and learn on the website is $39 a pack. So they're $3 apiece. So very much premium, higher end. Uh, but we, I think, are going to learn through that phase what is right, and, and that's our intent. We are not looking to run. We want to learn. Our consumer is going to tell us a lot, so we're going to try to be very smart how we roll this out in phases, uh, with feedback being one of the most important loops in the entire thing, especially because it's new. The texture is different, that creamy texture. You know, I think the number one response we get is, wow, I, I can't stop eating it, but I wasn't expecting that. So I think there's things that we're going to learn about how we communicate, how we price, where, how we show up, different language maybe on the, on the packaging. So we only ran a small amount of packaging to do like a 400 pack D2C test before we invest bigger and And I think we're going to just learn a lot and be flexible and adapt. We're totally bootstrapped, so that's also, you know, part of our strategy to, you know, carefully and cautiously move forward so we don't overextend and and spend on packaging that doesn't work.

Ray Latif [21:53] Very wise, very thoughtful, go to market strategy, and I think you're on the right track, Sam, Sarah Marie. I, I, I really love what you're doing and I'm excited to see where this brand goes. Uh, if you have more questions, uh, you know, thoughts about Where to go in terms of your channel strategy. Please reach out and let us know. If we don't have the answers, we'll do our best to connect you with folks who do and who have been there and done that. Again, in those channels that you mentioned, including hospital and assisted living, cause I think that is an interesting path for sleep pops as well. Uh, in the meantime, thank you so much for joining us on today's episode of Elevator Talk. Really, really appreciate it. Thank you

Speaker 3 [22:31] both. This was a pleasure.

Ray Latif [22:33] Let's keep it going with Jen Ko, who is the co-founder and CEO of Dime. Jen, it's great to see you.

Speaker 4 [22:42] Yeah, really great to see you. Thanks, Ray, and nice to meet you,

Ray Latif [22:44] Wade. Nice to meet you. I met Jen at Expo West and, uh, definitely one of the more eye-opening brands that I saw in the entire event. Very, very interesting stuff. Jen, tell us all about Dime.

Speaker 4 [22:58] Yeah, so again, I'm the co-founder and CEO of Dime, and Dime is an everyday seasoning brand redefining what MSG is through bold Asian flavors. So last year we launched with three core blends, and I'll show them to you because I think it's just people don't realize what seasoning is when they look at our pack. This is the OG. Um, we have Yuzu lemon pepper, and then we have Korean chili, and all of our blends are designed to add instant umami to your meals, snacks, and we even use it in cocktails.

Ray Latif [23:33] Very cool. Now, just to be clear, because I'm looking at your website, I see two different package types, um, but everything is MSG based. Is that right? Is that right?

Speaker 4 [23:42] Yes, yeah. So all of our blends have MSG in them, and we blend them with premium ingredients like things you already understand garlic powder, onion powder, yuzu juice powder for our yuzu, lemon pepper, and then gougaru chili flakes for the Korean chili flavor.

Ray Latif [23:59] OK. All right, Wade, I'm gonna, I'm gonna age us a bit. Um, you're in your late twenties. I'm in my early twenties, and you know, back when we were growing up, MSG was considered to be just a no no for anything. And it's so interesting today that we're seeing not only MSG incorporated into foods, but MSG for centric brands like Don. Now there's not a lot of these. This is the only one I can think of, but I think it's a really cool concept, and it's certainly one that seems like it's geared to in position to reach a younger consumer.

Speaker 2 [24:35] I agree, and yeah, not to date ourselves, but yeah, I, you know, you're just kind of trained that MSG is bad, right? And I think as you look at the younger generation and you also become a little bit more educated yourself, you also learn very quickly that it is used in a lot of Asian dishes. If not every, every kitchen, right? And so every commercial kitchen. So, uh, I think there, there's going to be an educational component with the older consumers, but I think, you know, your, your younger consumers likely already get it or will get it if, if they don't, so.

Ray Latif [25:11] Jen, why did you feel like it was important to really call out MSG as your key ingredient? I think you could have gone to market with just your flavors, which is, uh, uh, I'm looking at your website again. You have your OG, you have, your yuzu lemon pepper, and your Korean chili. I know, I know you don't wanna hide anything, but why do you feel like it was important to lead with MSG?

Speaker 4 [25:31] Yeah, so that truly is the core mission of our product. There's so many seasoning brands and flavor brands out there. The legacy brands hide it, so many of them do have MSG in it, but they don't lead with it like Ray was saying. And for us it's all about kind of the cultural story that we're trying to tell, so. MSG has historically gotten a really bad reputation, and it's due to outdated and culturally biased misinformation. And so what we're trying to do is to bring a really delicious, really hopefully fun and cool looking product to change people's mind about what they think about MSG. So yes, we kind of have an uphill battle of education and I think while maybe our branding gravitates towards the younger consumer, um, when we talk to maybe the older consumers who have this misperception of what MSG is, I actually like to tell them that it's in things like Hidden Valley Ranch and Campbell's chicken noodle soup, and a lot of brands that, you know, the Older generations, like I grew up with Campbell's chicken noodle soup, and we just didn't know that MSG was in it. So I think it's really important what we're trying to do to just reframe MSG. And that's why we're leading with it. That's why we put it like literally the center of our package is MSG. So we don't want to hide anything.

Ray Latif [26:52] And where is Dime sold at this point?

Speaker 4 [26:54] So we launched on Amazon first, and then we have our D2C site up as of the end of last year, and then we're in specialty retail. So in 2026, our goal is to focus on more national retail

Ray Latif [27:06] and price point per pack.

Speaker 4 [27:08] 999.

Ray Latif [27:10] OK, and how many servings, I guess, do you get out of each pack?

Speaker 4 [27:14] Yeah, so you get 50 servings, so it's 75 g in one pack. The Korean chili is a little bit smaller because of the volume of the chili flakes, but yeah, 50 servings per pack.

Ray Latif [27:27] Wade, as we've talked about, merchandizing is really important. Sometimes it's kind of tough to ask for and receive placement in a particular set or aisle in a grocery store. But where do you see Dime as being most, most efficiently merchandis?

Speaker 2 [27:45] Understanding the use case, I, I feel it has to be in the spice section or like adjacent right to it. It's got to be in somewhere in those areas. And I think for me when I think about that, and, and I'm, I'm not sure, you know, depending on what retail you're in so far, if you've had, if, if you've been questioned. Um, but again, I, we talked a little bit about, about this, uh, with the previous brand, but the, the size of the package in the bag when so many of the, the competitive items are in shakers or smaller bottles or something like that. Have you received any feedback that, you know, conceivably you might be taking up Two times the shelf space of like a smaller package, has that come up? And if so, how do you, how do you counteract that as far as merchandizing on shelf? Yeah,

Speaker 4 [28:28] so we're actually just in specialty retail right now, so we haven't had those conversations with more national retailers. Our pack is actually about the size of an iPhone, so It's not too much bigger than your traditional shaker bottle, and I've seen a few other seasoning brands now moving to pouches. So part of that actually how we explain it is it's for functionality. When you use a shaker and shake it over your food, the steam gets in it and it cakes the product. So there's actually functionality benefits. with the pouch, but I am interested, Wade, when you're saying like the seasoning section and yes we see ourselves there, but also, you know, the ethnic section where you're seeing a lot of like the taco seasonings and you know the ranch packets that are there and then because of the format of our packaging. Um, I could see us doing kind of the clip strips where we're next to produce or protein aisles because what we're trying to do is make all of your food taste better, so it's an ingredient or a product that you need to grab while you're also grabbing your produce or your protein.

Speaker 2 [29:39] One of the things I always like to suggest to people is, you know, on this side, previous role, I was the guy you were selling to, but in this role, um, I, I always suggest say, OK, Jen, go into, who's your target retailer. Let's say, pick anybody, you know, let's say Sprouts. Go into, go into Sprouts store, take your package in there. Put it, you know, you have to do this kind of discreetly, you know, you're, but do it, put it on the shelf, kind of where you wanna be and take a picture because what you just explained to me, if I was in my previous role as a buyer, it makes sense. Um, the one thing I would say is when you think about these, what we would call secondary placements when you start talking about produce and things like that, those, those you want to do incrementally beyond once you get your, you wanna, you. You want to live on the shelf somewhere. You want to have a home that people know where to go to and, and then incrementality comes when you get these secondary displays like maybe it's again next to produce or a clip strip or something like that, but you, you want to find a home on the shelf where 52 weeks of the year, someone knows this is where I'm going to find it because those other things, even in produce get moved around a little bit and so you always want your consumer to know where they need to find your or can find your product, um. I think it makes sense in the ethnic sections, and I've seen, you know, those executed very well. I'm not, I wouldn't say I love one over the other. I think it just resonated with me in most of the spice sections I see now is because of the diversity of products there and it's not just your cinnamon and onion powder and garlic powder. There's usually rather right next to it or leading into it some of these other items. The only concern I have in some of the ethnic sets that I've seen is you might get lumped into, if it's a smaller condensed set where it's not, you're not next to a seasoning, you might be next to a rice noodle or something like that. And I think if I'm not shopping for ethnicity that particular trip, I might, I might miss out on the opportunity, right? And, and go past it. So I, I think you'll learn as you, as you talk and, and get some feedback like I'm giving you. I think you'll, you'll, every buyer is gonna have a different opinion, and I think that's what makes it beneficial if you can get in and say, here's what it would look like here and here's who's next to me and, and, and kind of go throughout the store and, and look at it and then take it back and, and maybe ask, ask some friends or look and say, what do you think and where does, where does it make sense to you? Uh, that's, that's how I, I think I'd approach it.

Speaker 4 [31:56] Yeah, that's super helpful. Um, I've definitely done my due diligence of secretly putting my product on the shelf, so

Ray Latif [32:05] nice. Well, I mean, you want to see what it looks like next to other products too and, and how it fits into a particular set. Um, Jen, I'm looking at your Instagram page right now, and I think the thing that moves me most about your products are how it's being, is how it's being incorporated into food. And I imagine that's also resonating with a lot of your, your consumers is, you know, I, I use Dime in this way and it's making my food that much more flavorful. Is that, has that been your experience? Is, is, is the, the actual use of the product really what's getting people excited about it, because your branding is great. I mean, the name is kind of provocative, and of course, you know, MSG itself is a little provocative as well, but what's really getting people enthusiastic and excited about this brand?

Speaker 4 [32:49] Yeah, I definitely think like content is our biggest strategy right now and showing people all the use cases. I know we, you were talking about protein and fiber before and a lot of the trends that are going on. We're like bringing the flavor, so you could be a gym bro eating your chicken breasts and you sprinkle daemon and it just elevates your meal, you know, by 100%. I think we are also really leaning on like umami, so that is trending. It's up 80% year over year, and MSG is actually the purest form of umami. The person who created MSG created umami, that flavor, so it's really educating people on what MSG does to your food and how it makes everything just around it taste so much better. Um, so yeah, content and showing how to use it, I think also just telling people that it's not scary, like making it very easily accessible, um, and Yeah, like telling them what else it's in. It's in tomatoes, so you're already eating it. It's a glutamic acid. It's in your body. It's in protein, so.

Ray Latif [33:53] Well, you're doing the heavy lifting for uh a seasoning that has been vilified for so long. So, uh, congrats on that, or at least kudos on what you're doing, Jen, um, and embrace the umami, which is the tagline on your website, I think is great. I really do think, uh, you know, people are familiar with the word even if they don't necessarily know what it means, but I think in most cases, people think it means flavor enhancement, uh, which is a great thing and a, and a great starting point for this brand. Uh, congrats on everything you've built to this point. I, I, I was so impressed with what I saw at Expo West, and I'm like, we've got to get Jen on the show, and here you are. Thank you so much for being on Elevator Talk today. Please stay in touch. Thank you

Speaker 4 [34:34] so much, Ray. Thank you, Wade, for all your advice.

Ray Latif [34:37] Great stuff. Let's keep it going with our next guest. That person is Lindsay Leopold. She is the founder and CEO of Joy Supply. Lindsay, it's great to see you. Hi,

Speaker 5 [34:47] how's it going? It's nice to meet you both.

Ray Latif [34:49] Nice to meet you as well. Joy Supply, is that the name of a band? Am I, am I making that up? Or

Speaker 5 [34:54] we do have a Spotify playlist. It's a little bit of a play on that album cover for Joyce, but there is Air Supply, the band.

Ray Latif [35:02] Oh, Air Supply, yeah, you just touched my heart there. I'm a big Air Supply fan, and that, that tells you everything you need to know about me. So now I can reveal too much the playlist. Yes, indeed, Joy supply. What do you do?

Speaker 5 [35:15] What do we do? We are a modern heritage cookie brand that's bringing simple, high quality cookies back to the snack aisle. So when I say modern heritage, what I mean is my great grandpa started a bakery back in 1908 and we are taking one of his recipes that's been in my family and translating it into the cookie that I want to see on the shelf today. So it's only using ingredients you can find in your own pantry. We're taking it one step beyond that and sourcing directly from American family farms that are growing. In a regenerative way.

Ray Latif [35:47] Big fan of cookies. Uh, it's a big market, competitive market. Um, I almost feel like the name and the branding is, is the, is your way in. Um, but how have you, how have you thought about talking about your brand and your brand story on front of pack? Cause I'm, I'm on your website and it's still, um, you know, ready to, or, or almost there. I sign up for our newsletter to, to be the first to know when it launches, but how do you think about that first That first moment with the consumer when they see your brand on the shelf.

Speaker 5 [36:21] Yeah, great question. The cookie aisle is crowded for sure. Um, I think for me one of the things that sets us apart, especially in recent innovation, is that a lot of the new brands are better for you, which is amazing, but they tend to be gluten-free, allergen-friendly, or vegan, and it's my belief while those products are all great, we've kind of overindexed in innovation there, and You know, for someone that just wants a conventional cookie on the shelf that tastes great, I'm not seeing one that really like lives up to my quality standards. So that's where I started, and I also don't think that something has to be functional. I know this might be controversial given this crowd, but it doesn't have to be functional to be better for you. So this cookie is better for you simply because of where the ingredients come from. And I know you don't have the full box, but, um, one of the things that we do have on the back of pack is we have this little call out, and this is a flat, so it's kind of falling apart, but it says, Joy grows here, and it talks about the farms where we source our ingredients. Um, and then again, it's just like a simple 7 ingredient list, and I think it's something that really attracts like moms that are looking for something a little bit healthier for their kids or their families, um, but also not compromising on taste.

Ray Latif [37:30] Thanks for for showing the the back of pack. Can I see the front of pack to or wait

Speaker 5 [37:34] wait? This is, this is the chocolate chip skew. It's not taped together, so it was a flat. So this is chocolate chip, um, and then on the side we have our no artificial flavors, colors, synthetic sweeteners, and then on the back it says Dre grows here, and it talks a little bit about the farms that we source from.

Ray Latif [37:51] Yeah, I'm getting a little bit of Tate's vibes. I think that's a good thing, frankly. I mean, Tate's is a pretty well known brand and pretty well respected in the thin cookie as well. Yours. I'm seeing on your on your Instagram page, the butteriness of what you're doing really speaks to me, and I think that is something that a lot of people remember when they were making cookies as kids, and I think that nostalgia is definitely important. A lot of people are really gravitating toward What they grew up with. Wade, I think about a brand like this, and I think about the opportunity that Lindsay outlined, which is it doesn't need to be functional to be better for you. I love that, and I think a lot of people love that. It doesn't have to have protein, for example. I mean, I'm not, not knocking any cookie that has protein. In fact, I eat a lot of cookies that have protein, but sometimes you just want a cookie just to have a cookie. But how marketable is that in 2026, Wade?

Speaker 2 [38:50] Well, I think what Lindsay outlined, she's told us what her story is, right? She's, she cares about, you know, ingredients you could pronounce, you know, there's no, there's no stuff that's not in the kitchen, and then also, uh, you know, the, the, the farming aspect, the sourcing aspect. So, um, there, that comes at a premium, right? And I think the, the thing that you, you'll need to do, Lindsay, is, is make sure that you're getting credit for that, right? Because you're taking, it's very conscious, you, you laid it out for us. It's very. Conscious what you're doing, how you're sourcing, where you're doing it, and, and that needs to be very clear and don't be afraid to, to, to lean into that because you're exactly right. It doesn't have to be quote unquote functional. Um, it has to taste good, uh, you know, and I think some of the other ones that, you know, some of the other attributes you talked about gluten-free and Uh, vegan and things like that, I can tell you that's not me. And so right away, I already have a preconceived notion in my head what that's going to taste like, you know, and so, and it's not, I don't want that, you know, so if yours is offering an alternative to that and it's premium and it's, it has all natural ingredients and the regenerative component, I think those are things that you absolutely need to get credit for because I'm assuming a lot. But I'm assuming that's gonna be reflective in your price on the shelf, and so you need to be able, that's gonna be part of your differentiation is everything I just said. And so you've got to get credit for it. And, and then I, as a consumer, I'm gonna say, yep, that's why I'm gonna pay more for this because boom, boom, boom, if that makes sense.

Speaker 5 [40:15] Totally, yeah, and that's something that, you know, we are at a more premium price point for 14 cookies. It's, we're starting at 8.99 because We're doing smaller production runs as we get everything figured out, but, um, over time, obviously, buying more packaging ingredients and whatnot, it will go down a little bit. Um, I do want to be competitive with other premium cookies in the world. I know you mentioned Ray Tate's, which is an amazing cookie brand, um, but of course they're owned by Mondele's now, so they have really extensive reach. Um, and it would be awesome to be their successor. So that is definitely, you know, a North Star to look to, but Um, you know, when I think about a premium brand like this, I'd be curious to hear from a buyer's perspective, the value of certifications because one of the things that we are working towards is we are sourcing these regenerative organic ingredients. Um, oats specifically are like a hero cover crop, and I know this is not an agriculture podcast, so I won't go too deep there, um, but we're really trying to support these farms that are bringing oats back into their rotations to bring nutrients back to the soil because they've been growing so much corn and soy. Um, and so that's why oats are kind of a hero ingredient here. Though they are thin and crisp, and you will never see a raisin in any of our cookies. Um, but that is kind of another differentiator is that there really isn't a thin crisp oat cookie on the shelf right now. But going back to um certification. I think one thing that I'm curious about is the regenerative organic market is still fairly small, and the farms themselves are still working on getting certified. And so, I can't always source ingredients at scale from those farms. And so I keep weighing, you know, um, how much we value that over something like glyphosate-free or non-GMO or the more, you know, recognizable ones, or if it's good to be one of the first regenerative organic certified cookies.

Speaker 2 [42:00] Well, I, I can, you know, my, my last role, as I mentioned in the introduction was at the fresh market, but prior to that, I was with Jimbo's in, in California, which is one of the highest ingredient standard retailers in the country, if not the highest. And when I left there, we were just, and that was in 2022, we were just starting to put a heavy, heavy focus on regenerative. And, um, for us at that time, and, and, and I'll bring this back around, but for us at that time, I don't know that the certification was as important as the regenerative aspect. Aspect itself, uh, at that time. I think when you talk about non-GMO, if you're making a non-GMO claim, that certification becomes very important, especially for some of your key natural retailers. Um, you, you know, retailers like Sprouts, if you make a claim somewhere on there, you know, GMO-free or something like that, they're gonna want that certification on the package. Organic, uh, organic, I kind of liken it to, organic trumps non-GMO, right? Because the organic certification. Um, because if it's organic certified, it's by default non-GMO certified. So I think if you're using organic ingredients that USDA organic obviously makes sense, but going back to your part, if, if you're not always consistently being able to source from that regenerative aspect, I think. You look to scale and you look at supply chain, that could be problematic in the future because if you need to deviate from that, and that's truthfully that's one of the reasons why we held brands accountable to be non-GMO certified was for that very reason, because if you ever have to deviate from your sourcing, Potentially that might bring a GMO into the store and we prided ourselves on being GMO-free. And so there's some give and takes there. I think on the regenerative component, I think it's, you, you hit it. It's still early in its infancy and it's an important part of your story and I think you can tell part of that story, at least that one without having to talk about the certification because I don't know that it's gonna resonate. At mass yet in time, I think it will. I think that's where brands are going and, you know, the future, uh, but I think right now it's, it's, it's on the hierarchy, I don't think it's as important as some of those other ones. And I think going back to the scale aspect you talked about and talking about, when you're talking about to potential buyers and interested parties, I think it's important for you to have An idea of what that scale looks like. You mentioned 899 whatever that price point was, but you also know that that's going to come down in time and so that should be part of your conversations like this is where we're at. However, we have a path to get here if that makes sense.

Speaker 5 [44:29] Totally, that, you know, unit economics, got to make sure that we have the chart for a buyer. Um, yeah, that, that certification piece is top of mind for me. I think Alex Ice Cream just came out and said we grew so much we can no longer source regenerative only dairy. So they're still 82, but they have had to shift things around,

Ray Latif [44:46] right, right. Lindsay, when are you planning to be on the market and where? You're based in Brooklyn, according to my notes here, is New York your target market for, for launch?

Speaker 5 [44:58] Yeah, uh, launch in New York. We're on fair pre-selling right now, so getting into some like independent boutique retailers, um, amazingly in 20 states already, but, you know, one or two shops here and there. And then we will have, you know, D2C presents online, but mostly shipping like 33 packs or the 4 pack sampler. Um, so retail focus will be in New York starting with pop-up grocer this summer. Wow,

Ray Latif [45:21] congratulations, very cool. Uh, pop-up grocer is the best and you can learn quite a bit about how Consumers perceive and buy your brand. Um, I also feel like Specialty might be a great channel for you as well, at least at least to start. Are you looking at that as well? Will you be at the upcoming fancy food show?

Speaker 5 [45:38] I'm not gonna be a fancy food show. I actually, that was another question I was gonna have for you guys. It's kind of, um, I have watched the show in years past for other brands that I've done development for, but, um, curious to hear your thoughts on when's the right time to debut at a show, how to go about it? Is it worth your money? Um, you know, as an entrepreneur, I'm always a little cash strapped, so I want to, you know, get the most bang for our buck.

Ray Latif [45:58] That's a really good question. Uh, Wade, I'm gonna hold you to 60 seconds. How about that? 60

Speaker 2 [46:03] seconds. I, I think it's, it's a crawl walk run mentality, Lindsay, and I always, I say that in virtually every LinkedIn post I do, and I think, um, the fact that you've been there, you, and, and whether it's previous brands or just walking it, I, I always suggest you do that first and, and look around to see who else is there. Uh, I, I feel. I'm leaning towards with your product. I, I think it, it's, I think there's a special component to it, but I think you're going to do really well in the natural and organic channel. And I think, so I tend to lean towards a show that would Draw more of that, that, that retailer interest. And I think when you get into the specialty side, I, I think you have a play there, but I, I feel natural organic for me, your product resonates a little bit more there. So I, I would, I would likely walk the show, look around, see, see who else is there, and, and, and before I got a booth, you know, because if I, if I'm, if I have a booth there, I want to draw, I wanna be able to attract buyers. I have to be ready to ship product. I have to be ready to be in stores, and I think if you're not ready for that yet, you don't need to exhibit. That's my personal opinion.

Ray Latif [47:04] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Definitely. Uh, Lindsay, thank you so much for joining us on Elevator Talk. Uh, really loved hearing about Joy Supply and really loved the fact that you're asking questions that I think A lot of other founders have as well. So it's really important to have this kind of conversation. Um, it's definitely not specific to one founder or another, and, and, and this is why I love doing this show because the insights, I think resonate with a lot of folks. So, I appreciate your questions for Wade and really appreciate you being on the show and can't wait to be in New York and see your product on shelf. All right. On to our final guests for this episode of Elevator Talk. We have Chris Enaal and Kelsey Saint Hilaire, the co-founders of Sidepiece.

Speaker 6 [47:47] Thanks for having us. You nailed, you nailed the names.

Ray Latif [47:51] Love it. I'm glad I did. I'm sweating buckets here thinking I screwed it up, but, uh, no one can see it luckily. Uh, so we had an opportunity to chat at Expo West, uh, about a month ago, and it, it feels like there was a ton of excitement about your brand. And Sidepiece just feels like it's a, it's a pro it's a brand and products that fit the moment. Uh, tell us all about what you're doing.

Speaker 6 [48:14] Yeah, basically, uh, we're a functional grab and go dessert, uh, with clean ingredients. Our hero product is a grab and go, um, cookie and frosting snack pack, and we're launching with three flavors churro, peanut butter, uh, chocolate, and birthday cake.

Ray Latif [48:31] So the snack pack that, um, again, I'm not trying to date us, but the snack pack that a lot of kids grew up with, at least in that format, um, people are going to be familiar with it. I, I wonder, is the younger generation or Gen Z consumers and millennial consumers, are they as aware of that type of pack? I mean, is it? Is it, is it as intuitive as I might think it is?

Speaker 6 [48:51] I think the format is very familiar because it's still around today, like the either it's cooking frosting or crackers and cheese, and uh that the format is very, very familiar and it's very intuitive, uh, but not, not everybody. Not everybody grew up with the 90s Dunkin's snack that we're trying to bring back to life, but there is a lot of excitement and from multiple demographics, so we're very excited about that. Yeah, and it's also, it's very familiar to, to millennials, but the exciting part is with Gen Z, we have an opportunity to show them something new and kind of like bring back a moment that we had as kids, and I think we can open up to a new consumer, and that's what we're really excited about.

Ray Latif [49:35] Yeah, Dunkaroos was the brand that you were referencing and, and I definitely remember those, and I don't remember Dunkaroos having uh 8 g of protein, 7 g of fiber, and only 4 g of sugar, which is, uh, what you guys sell with Sidepiece. Wade, uh, as I mentioned, I feel like this is a, this is a brand and these are products that are made for the moment. Um, you have indulgence, you have a familiar format, and you have the macros. Um, I guess the question now is, how do you execute and, and where does this live? I think that's been a common theme for this episode is, you know, how do you merchandise a product like this?

Speaker 2 [50:09] Yeah, and I think, um, and I, I think Kelsey, you and I, excuse me, exchange the messages. I, I've seen some of your branding and things you're doing. I, I really, it caught my attention, so kudos for that. Uh, and, and I think, you know, the brand, you know, is we're talking to Kelsey and Chris, which I'm not gonna attempt the last names, um, but, but, um, you know, they have to know where, where they want it on the shelf. And I, I, before I give my input, I want to make sure this, this is ambient, right? It's not shelves or it's not refrigerated. No, it's shelf stable. It is, it is, OK, yeah, so we have to know where, where we want it on the shelf, what, what we want next to it, and then from a merchandizing perspective, is that, that, that tray that we saw, is, is, that's one unit you're buying one unit or is it a pack? Multi-pack

Speaker 6 [50:53] that is 1 unit and our 6 pack will look OK,

Speaker 2 [50:56] so that's, that's what I wanted to see. So, so you're going to have a merchandnizable unit that that top rips off and then I can just put it there. OK, OK, so that makes sense. That makes sense.

Speaker 6 [51:07] This would be a closed version.

Speaker 2 [51:08] OK. And then from a price point, what is the suggested retail per single unit?

Speaker 6 [51:14] Single unit 299 and 1799 for the six pack.

Speaker 2 [51:18] Got it, got it. OK, yeah, so I, I think, you know, you're, you're going to be, I think you want to be, uh, near the, near the snack aisle, the cookie aisle, likely, right? And, and again, as I spoke to someone else earlier, I think going into the retailer and, and putting your product there and saying this is where I want to be, this is where the white space is or who I feel my competition is. Uh, would be beneficial to you, um, because going back to what I said is if, if you're presenting to me, right, in my prior role as a buyer or a leader of buyers, if you don't know where it lives, You're confused, I'm confused. I'm gonna be confused, right? And so I, I think the more you can help direct me into how you're fitting and, and the niche you're filling is going to be beneficial to you. And, um, I think, uh, you know, the price point with the, with the nutritional attributes, I don't think is scary. So, uh, yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense.

Ray Latif [52:11] I think the fun aspect of this is really important too. Sidepiece feels like a fun brand. How you communicate fun, uh, not just in front of pack, but on your socials, on your, on social media, in store, uh, how do you, how do you talk about Sidepiece is a fun brand? I, I, I, I guess you don't have to do too, too much because again, the packaging and the format feels really fun, but how do you incorporate that part of your messaging in that, in your overall communication?

Speaker 6 [52:39] Well, we knew the name Sidepiece, it was, it could, it could come off a little provocative, but we thought if we just position it in a way that makes sense by using funny taglines, by how we, how we create content that lean into like the liquid death type of, you know, um, positioning and just make it fun, we think we could really, you know, reach a lot of people that way, and that's kind of what we, what we talk with our, um, Our marketing agency, our brand agency, we're like, we want to make it as fun as possible. And we want the letters to be bold and drippy and like, and really communicate the fact that this is a product for, for, for kids as well, because we want to live in kids' lunchboxes. That's our, that's, you know, we know it's going to end up there. So I think just like how we communicate our, our mission statement, our vision, and how we communicate the, the product, uh, and just everything from the look of it to the feel. I mean, we just, we wanted everything to just be fun, as fun as possible. So that's kind of like, that's, that's how we're trying to position it.

Ray Latif [53:34] Yeah, where did the name Sidepiece come from? It is provocative.

Speaker 6 [53:38] It was a lot of back and forth for months. We didn't like any of the options that were presented to us, and one day Sidepiece came out of my mouth, and we just looked at each other and we just knew at that moment. And it just, it just makes sense because it's a grab and go snack pack. It's, there's there's two compartments, so they're next to each other side by side, and it just, it just made so much sense. So we're like, like we have to do it.

Ray Latif [54:05] One of the things that I've heard from investors about brands like this is making sure that the founders are buttoned up when it comes to operations, because it seems like there's a lot of moving parts here, right? You've got the cookie, you've got the package, you've got the, the dipping. A sauce. I'm just going to call it a sauce. What would you call it? Frosting, frosting, the dipping frosting. That's a better way of putting it, not even dipping, just frosting.

Speaker 6 [54:30] It took us so long to figure out. Should we call it a dip? Should we call it frosting? Should we call it fudge? So we landed on

Ray Latif [54:36] frosting. I think cookies and frosting sounds amazing. I think that's how it should do that. I would, I would definitely be into that. But Wade, especially, you know, when you're considering your role at Vdriven and advising founders on how to keep their operations strategy all buttoned up. When you're forecasting demand and thinking about lead times for ingredients and packaging and so on and so forth, that's one of the more complicated parts of this industry. Um, how would you advise Chris and Kelsey as to, you know, thinking about, not the long, long term, but say the next year or so?

Speaker 2 [55:09] Yeah, and I think, you know, we have operations experts on our team. That's, that's not my complete background, but it, but I, I think it's important that, um, again, it's kind of look before you leap scenario and understand what you're, uh, assuming you don't own your own manufacturing equipment, right? You're co-man or someone's making this for you. Well,

Speaker 6 [55:26] we actually have to purchase all the machines ourselves. So, oh,

Speaker 2 [55:29] oh wow. So, so you're not, it's not shared equipment then.

Speaker 6 [55:32] It's not shared, but it will be on their floor.

Speaker 2 [55:34] OK, OK, yeah, so it's, it's just understanding their capabilities and then also. Uh, from a, you know, from a hierarchy standpoint with regards to, you know, if, if they have a client that's doing 20,000 cases and you need 1, 1000, you know, are, are you going to take priority, you know, just so understand the limitations and or capabilities of your command so that whenever you are. Ready to start, whether it's D2C or retail, are they going to be able to keep up with the demand or how much notice do they need to keep up with demand? Because I always tell people that, you know, my worst nightmare is that I fall as a buyer is I fall in love with your product. I give you placement on the shelf, and you can't give me the product. Because that, that relationship's not gonna last very long, you know, I mean, I might give you some leniency to say, OK, well, they're having some issues or it's out of stock, but, you know, I'm, I'm as a category manager, I'm judged for, uh, margin and margin dollars, sales dollars, and when an empty shelf doesn't sell, and it's only a matter of time before something takes that space, whether to look aesthetically, look that the shelf isn't empty or because, hey, I'm, I'm not getting any dollars out of this brand. I, I need to make a change. So it's important to me, uh. I think to tell you is to, to, to just make sure that's, that is, as Ray said, buttoned up and you're ready for, as you start that approach into retail and say, OK, I've got this first commitment and it's 2040, 50, 400 stores. Can you keep up with that demand and then just be very methodical about that so that you're not, you're not biting off more than you can chew, right? Just be very conscious about it, be very deliberate on, on, as you're breaking into retail. Um, we talk about this all the time. It's no longer, you know, as many doors as possible, as quick as you can. It's get in, prove demand, prove velocity, grow sustainably, and just go, go, go, you know, as opposed to let's throw enough stuff up against the wall, see what sticks.

Ray Latif [57:24] Yeah, and if you can try to be lined up and ready for that big opportunity if Target comes on and says, Hey, we want to put your brand into 400, 500, 1000 stores, and you want to say yes, but you've got to be ready to say yes. And of course sometimes you need to say no because it's not the right opportunity, it's not the right time. I just want to ask just before we wrap up, Kelsey and Chris, you paid for the equipment or you bought the equipment. Uh, fore side piece that's located at your comman. I assume that was a pricey capital investment. Um, how, how did you, how did you finance it? Is it something where it's bootstrapped or, um, are you paying with debt?

Speaker 6 [58:06] We're doing a little bit of everything, uh, some of it is bootstrapped, we raised, uh, a small friends and family round that took us this far, and, uh, yeah, now we're raising our uh precede.

Ray Latif [58:20] OK, yeah, I mean, it's, it's a, it's an expensive outlay for to buy equipment or to to have your own manufacturing facility. Sometimes you can control your own destiny a little bit better than you would with a comman, but I mean it's, it's interesting and I'm really excited to follow this story because Um, it's not one that everybody has, but it, it might be one that more founders look at and, and try to understand if it's the right path for their brand. So let's definitely stay in touch. I, I, I, we're, we're limited here with time on Elevator Talk, but I always want to keep the story going. So the next time we have an opportunity to chat, let's, let's, let's talk a little bit longer.

Speaker 6 [58:59] Yeah, let's do it with pleasure. Thank you for having us.

Ray Latif [59:03] Thank you so much for joining us on Elevator Talk. You know, such interesting concepts that meet the moment, that meet the trend, that meet where the consumer is right now, and I think you nailed it when you talked about proving yourself out and making sure that you're in a few stores and learn as much as you can and show traction and show development and show that people actually want your brand and show that you can be reliable as a partner to that retailer. And it's exciting because all these brands are really at the outset of their journeys and you know we'll see, we'll see what happens. But just in a general sense, you know, what are your thoughts on the 4, the 4 brands we saw today?

Speaker 2 [59:43] Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I've stated that, you know, my experience at Expo this year is a little different than past years. I didn't have as much time to get around as I have, so I didn't get to see a lot of brands firsthand as I have in years past. But I heard time and time again. Um, there was a lot of innovation. It was a lot of me too, and, and I heard that from a lot of people, and, and I think anybody that says innovation is dead should listen, watch this episode very closely because I think all four brands are doing something different. Uh, there's white space out there, and I think each one of these are attacking that white space in their given category. So kudos to them for thinking outside the box and trying different things and wish them all the best of luck.

Ray Latif [1:00:23] You nailed it. Uh, you're, you're absolutely right. You know, when, when people talk about the lack of innovation or the just a lot of copycats out there, I mean, that may be true for a lot of what we saw at Expo West, but I think these four brands definitely represented. A difference, and we talked about this at the at the start of the show. What is your point of difference? What makes you special in the eyes of a retail buyer and the end consumer? And I think It's exciting to see what these founders are doing and what they're bringing to market. Uh, as I mentioned, Wade, you're the best, and, and I wanna, I wanna make sure that our listeners and viewers stay in touch with you and the team at V Driven, and I'm sure there's a lot more questions to ask of you. How do people get in touch with you and the team?

Speaker 2 [1:01:08] The easiest way for me is just probably just reach out directly on LinkedIn. Uh, my name, just find me there. Tune in on normal Fridays on CPG vibes. We're not there this week, but Uh, our podcast that we do, uh, for V Driven, you can go to vdriven.com and hit schedule a call, and that'll put, you'll likely reach out directly to me. So, um, any one of the three,

Ray Latif [1:01:27] yeah, and I'd highly recommend to Tas Radio listeners that they also tune into CPG Vibes, which is a fantastic show. And Wade has been doing it for, was it your 5th year

Speaker 2 [1:01:36] now? Uh, we're, we're gonna be, we're approaching 200 episodes, and, and we're, we're coming up quick on, on, uh, 5 years, but it's just a little over 4 right now.

Ray Latif [1:01:45] Yeah, very cool. Well, for your 5th year anniversary, I, I, I gotta send you something, so just let me know when that date is, and, uh, a bottle of champagne will be coming your way.

Speaker 2 [1:01:54] Appreciate it, Ray. Thank you.

Ray Latif [1:01:55] I appreciate you, my friend. Thank you so much and thanks to everyone who joined us today on Elevator Talk. Thanks to everyone who tuned in and thank you to our amazing team at Bevnet Nosh and Taste Radio, the best in the business. Signing off for everyone. I'm Ray Latif, and we'll talk to you next time.